Curse

Mordakai · Nov 16, 2007, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

1) What does grind actually cover in GWs (i.e what requires grind ingame)?

I never actually answered this question:

Most Titles are Grind by design.

I also consider the 10k Luxon/Kurzick faction requirement to be Grind, not because it's hard, but because it breaks from the established route of simply being able to go to the next mission.

The Big Question: Does the grind in GWEN count?

It could be considered Grind because it puts a time barrier to get access to armor and NPCs.

On the other hand, it's not denying access to geographic parts of the game, just cosmetic parts, or is that too fine a distinction?

Aera Lure · Nov 16, 2007, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

I hate seeing lvl10s running around high end content because you know they want to join you just so they can get to the end at a low level.

Why? This affects you how? Why is it important? It really annoys me to have things barricaded off honestly. Prophecies was perfect imho. Could go pretty much anywhere if you could find yourself a way to get there and through pretty much any mission if you could survive it. At the same time you could play it in order if you so prefer, or out of order and go back and pick up what you missed when you felt like it. Freedom > Linearity. All this assumes having played it through once in order to get the best out of the story, its just after some 3+ times it really was kind of nice to do it in the order you wished.

Not a big deal and even sort of off topic. Its just I never understood that line of thinking. It was a disappointing development in all three subsequent editions for me.

Isileth · Nov 16, 2007, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Grind is the completing of a repetitive task, to a point where the only major consideration is reward/time and not difficulty.

Farming is grind (PvE missions are not).
Alliance titles are grind (though AB is not).
Most PvE titles are grind (cartography/guardian are not).

Sometimes this depends on the mindset - for example Hero title can be grind to one player who plays purely to raise rank, and not grind for another who plays to win halls. They both achieve the same thing, but their focus is different.

All imo.

That pretty much sums it up for me as well.

Fried Tech · Nov 16, 2007, 08:17 PM // 20:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Grind is the completing of a repetitive task, to a point where the only major consideration is reward/time and not difficulty.

Farming is grind (PvE missions are not).
Alliance titles are grind (though AB is not).
Most PvE titles are grind (cartography/guardian are not).

Sometimes this depends on the mindset - for example Hero title can be grind to one player who plays purely to raise rank, and not grind for another who plays to win halls. They both achieve the same thing, but their focus is different.

All imo.

agree. couldn't have put it better myself.......really. I'm bad with words

P.S. - when i read the caption for your profile image it sounds like , the puss......in boots.

gerg-nad · Nov 16, 2007, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Grind is the completing of a repetitive task, to a point where the only major consideration is reward/time and not difficulty.

Farming is grind (PvE missions are not).
Alliance titles are grind (though AB is not).
Most PvE titles are grind (cartography/guardian are not).

Sometimes this depends on the mindset - for example Hero title can be grind to one player who plays purely to raise rank, and not grind for another who plays to win halls. They both achieve the same thing, but their focus is different.
All imo.

I would agree with this definition and the key word is "repetative". Over and over you do essentially the same thing. I think watching a movie over and over consecutively would be a grind. The point I think to all of this is less grind in a game is generally better. I like variety and the achievements to the game should be less about putting time into these repetitive tasks.

Darksun · Nov 16, 2007, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Mordakai hit the nail on the head with the statement that grind cannot be standardized. I think MOST people would agree killing a slime 1000 times to access the next room in a dungeon would be grind, but there may be someone that considers it a challenge.

Although the repetition & lack of fun are common in the definition they are still fluid in determining what is "grind" I don't know if people should even use the term since it's so subjective and instead state what & why they don't like certain features or parts of a game.

Mordakai · Nov 16, 2007, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darksun

Mordakai hit the nail on the head with the statement that grind cannot be standardized. I think MOST people would agree killing a slime 1000 times to access the next room in a dungeon would be grind, but there may be someone that considers it a challenge.

Aye, but that didn't keep me from trying to pin down a basic definition.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darksun

Although the repetition & lack of fun are common in the definition they are still fluid in determining what is "grind" I don't know if people should even use the term since it's so subjective and instead state what & why they don't like certain features or parts of a game.

Agreed, to often people say "This is GRIND!" without explaining WHY they think it is. Too be sure, there is Grind in Guild Wars, and it would be good for the developers to hear that so maybe there will be less grind in GW2...

The Way Out · Nov 16, 2007, 08:38 PM // 20:38

What about grinding to get a req9 ele sword...? Is that uber grinding?

Isileth · Nov 16, 2007, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Way Out

What about grinding to get a req9 ele sword...? Is that uber grinding?

Well you did just ask if grinding was grinding

So yes in that case, it is indeed grinding.

The Way Out · Nov 16, 2007, 08:47 PM // 20:47

I asked if that were uber grining?... I see the humor is lost... <sigh>

Mordakai · Nov 16, 2007, 09:10 PM // 21:10

Yes, I agree we need degrees of grinding. I suggest using areas of the game as indicators:

Pre-searing Grinding = easy
Factions Grinding = Medium
FoW Grinding = Hard
Mallyx Grinding = Legendary?

(take with shaker of salt)

Antheus · Nov 16, 2007, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Way Out

What about grinding to get a req9 ele sword...? Is that uber grinding?

WTB q9 ele sword, 100k

No, not really a grind.

Gigashadow · Nov 16, 2007, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

Some people have incorrect perception of what hard work is. Working 16 hour shifts flipping burgers is not hard work. It's mindless work.

Mindless and hard work aren't mutually exclusive, you can have someone digging ditches for 16 hours a day, and it's mindless, but it's also hard work.

Winterclaw · Nov 16, 2007, 09:57 PM // 21:57

If it's got a title related to it, then there's a good chance it's grind. There are a few things that don't have a title specifically related to them, like green farming or trying to cap that stupid HH elite in proph, which are still grind. There are also a few titles that aren't necessarily grind.

ensoriki · Nov 16, 2007, 10:02 PM // 22:02

Superior Rune of Vigor.

Martin Firestorm · Nov 16, 2007, 10:40 PM // 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

2) What do we all percieve as the meaning of grind, in relation to Guild Wars?

This question is why you're not going to have much success here. Grind is mostly subjective, a state of mind. Whatever you don't like doing in game which you are forced to do to play the game is a pretty good definition of grind, but that varies so much from player to player.

Darksun · Nov 16, 2007, 10:56 PM // 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gigashadow

Mindless and hard work aren't mutually exclusive, you can have someone digging ditches for 16 hours a day, and it's mindless, but it's also hard work.

definitely true. Flipping burgers for 16 hours IS hard work because it's so damn tedious & long. Just because the qualifications for something are low doesn't make it easy. Many people can use a shovel, few can handle doing it for so long.

Count to Potato · Nov 16, 2007, 11:02 PM // 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darksun

. Many people can use a shovel, few can handle doing it for so long.

Shovels are cool, but grinding is completly different

Queenie · Nov 17, 2007, 01:26 AM // 01:26

My definition of 'grind'

A repetitive task done continuously for rewards like titles, armor, weapons, money etc.

Putting it into context:
"Jill grinded Asuran points all day..."

Mac Sidewinder · Nov 17, 2007, 02:16 AM // 02:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Firestorm

This question is why you're not going to have much success here. Grind is mostly subjective, a state of mind. Whatever you don't like doing in game which you are forced to do to play the game is a pretty good definition of grind, but that varies so much from player to player.

I totally agree. Its going to vary in definition from player to player. I enjoy farming (not grinding to me) but I hate to create a new character and run him/her all the way through the storyline again. To me even though its playing the game its still grinding since I have done it so many times already and I know exactly what to expect.

The reason I enjoy farming is not for the money or drops (even though it nice), it to see if I can come up with a way to solo certain areas. This is very challenging and entertaining to me.

So I don't think you can come up with a concrete definition of grind. It's too subjective.

Quote:

My definition of 'grind'

A repetitive task done continuously for rewards like titles, armor, weapons, money etc..

To some this is simply playing the game so to them its not grind. I think that a person's definition of grind is directly related to what that person perceives as fun.